Winter Sunlight

Back, and thinking more about genfic

Back from the Internetless Wilds! I think it was good for me to spend a week or so in enforced Internet withdrawal -- I actually didn't miss it (much), and it gave me an opportunity to think a lot and not have other people's thoughts getting in the way (as they sometimes do, on the Internet).

The post I made before I left touched a nerve with a lot of people. That really wasn't something I meant to do. Like I said in the comments, I'd been thinking about the gen thing for awhile (the better part of a year, at least), and tossed off a mention in a post without really thinking about it -- that's what I get for posting on not enough sleep, in between packing. Anyway, though, it was a good thing to have space to think about it for a week or so with that conversation at the top of my mind.

And I'm still thinking about the various points people made. Two particular points struck a chord with me:

xparrot commented that fictional romance is typically an idealized version of actual romance and people are okay with that, so why isn't it equally okay to write an idealized, romanticized version of friendship?
• And several different people made the point that emotionally-intense friendship fic is affirming for a lot of people (it certainly is for me) and dismissing it also dismisses a lot of people's own experience with diverse kinds of love and affection.

Which is not to say most gen fic is a strictly realistic depiction of friendship or other platonic relationships, but then, most romance isn't particularly true to most people's experience of romance IRL, and that's certainly not going away anytime soon. (Nor should it.)

And I do feel like friendship tends to be an afterthought for most people, in media and in real life, even though we need social bonds to other people and function best as part of a community, whether a geographically connected community or one that we self-select. We aren't really designed to feed all our social needs, emotional and intellectual, off a single person, but we live in a society that valorizes romance and tends to suggest other kinds of relationships are disposable afterthoughts.

That was one of the reasons why I liked Legends of Tomorrow so much, incidentally -- because the non-romantic relationships got their own mini-arcs, and most of them got nearly as much narrative weight as the show's love triangle.

And one reason why I latched onto the Jack-Peggy friendship in Agent Carter so hard is because it really nailed the whole feeling of an experience I've actually had, an intense bonding experience causing a sudden falling-into-friendship with somebody you never saw that way before. In my case it wasn't antipathy to friendship, it was more like indifference to close friendship in a matter of hours. I remember wondering in the beginning if it was going to fade, because it was a startling feeling to go from being near-total strangers to almost as close as family in a single day -- but it didn't; we're still close friends 20 years later. So I know you can have those intense, transcendental experiences in relationships where romance and sex aren't involved; I know you can fall suddenly into friendship the way people fall in love, because I've done it.

And besides, even if I hadn't -- and even if friendship wasn't one of the biggest driving emotional forces in my life, which it is -- I still know that human relationships are endlessly complicated. I think fiction should reflect some of that complexity, and I love getting to explore it myself. Sure, it's often idealized to hell and back, but that's what cranks my engine, and romance gets to have that all the time, so why not do it with gen?

People mentioned in the comments to the last post that they get affirmation from this kind of fic (in an "I am not alone, there's someone else out there who feels this way too, there's someone who's had these experiences too" kind of way). I certainly did, when I first discovered that gen h/c was something that existed on the Internet. And I like the idea of being able to help offer that feeling to other people.

Basically I came back from my wilderness isolation feeling much more like "screw it, I don't care what anyone says, I'm going to write what I want." And I made the conscious decision not to worry about it as I have been. Because, honestly, in the grand scheme of things, there are WAY bigger things in the world to worry about than whether I might be ~teaching bad lessons~ by writing about people loving each other in a socially-unapproved way. Besides, fandom also contains unrepentantly titillating rape fic (I've written some of that too, believe it or not, back in the day of anon SGA fic memes), underage, and basically a whole WORLD of things that are not okay in the real world, and I don't think fics like that shouldn't exist, or that they don't have valuable things to offer people who write and read them. So I cannot and will not bring myself to believe that a PG-rated gen fic about people cuddling each other is something to feel terribly guilty about -- not for me, and not for anyone else.

ETA: I really do appreciate the intelligent and reasonable discussion in the comments to the last post. You guys made thoughtful points, and it gave me a lot to think about.

This entry is also posted at http://sholio.dreamwidth.org/1096878.html with comment count unavailable comments.
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\o/

I'm so glad you came to this conclusion because yes, life affirming friendships exist and we need stories about them as much as about the romantic ones.
So I cannot and will not bring myself to believe that a PG-rated gen fic about people cuddling each other is something to feel terribly guilty about -- not for me, and not for anyone else.


\o/ YAY! So happy to hear you coming to this conclusion because I so soooo very much agree! (I may have not actually joined in the conversation online...but Neechan and I discussed it (of course we did ^__-) and it made me so crazy sad you were feeling this way and just...yeah....so glad this is your ultimate take-away...) Seriously, the idea of you giving up on gen is just too tragic! ^_^ (...apologies for not stating this more eloquently...posting late at night...or...y'know, early morning...not always the wisest of choices ^^)
Basically I came back from my wilderness isolation feeling much more like "screw it, I don't care what anyone says, I'm going to write what I want."

That's excellent to hear. ♥ ♥ ♥
Yay!

"screw it, I don't care what anyone says, I'm going to write what I want."

And yay to this for just about anything! I think there is value at looking what you want to write, and why you want to write it, and considering the full ramifications of it and the impact it has on others. But I pretty firmly believe that art (fiction/creative works/etc) are not inherently harmful; and one of the particular joys of fanfic is that it allows writers and readers alike to explore themes and concepts that aren't as common in canon works, but are important to/strike major chords in some people. Trying to limit fanfic, whether by outright censorship or by trying to guilt people into writing what you want/don't want to read, is anathema to me (and one of my big problems with certain attitudes in certain parts of fandom right now.) Fanfic's diversity, thanks to the diversity of its writers, is one of its strengths -- and no, it's not as diverse as it could be, a lot of the time, it could explore even more; but that's not going to happen by forcing fic writers to stick to specifically approved depictions. Especially not when fic is written for fun. The best way to get more variety of fic is to open up the playing field and encourage more people to join in, bringing what they want to read and write!
Trying to limit fanfic, whether by outright censorship or by trying to guilt people into writing what you want/don't want to read, is anathema to me (and one of my big problems with certain attitudes in certain parts of fandom right now.) Fanfic's diversity, thanks to the diversity of its writers, is one of its strengths -- and no, it's not as diverse as it could be, a lot of the time, it could explore even more; but that's not going to happen by forcing fic writers to stick to specifically approved depictions.

So much this. Sorry my responses to your comments are pretty much 'word' most of the time because you express so clearly exactly how I feel about this (and many other) issue(s).
Heee, hey, I'm just happy my rantings actually makes sense to someone!

But slightly more seriously, I actually am really glad to know I'm not alone in feeling how I do about all these fannish things that I can't help but feel so intensely about. (and also I just added you as a friend on lj, as I just realized you aren't on my flist!)
Huh. Well thank you :D

I've been reading your journal off and on even when I wasn't following you (due to fandom clash), and your opinions are always well thought-out and articulated so precisely it's a pleasure to read them :D It doesn't hurt that I agree with you 99% of the time :P

But yeah, I also really feel very strongly about gen fic having a place (because it means so much to me) and about people being allowed to do their own thing; no more than allowed: it should be celebrated! The joy of fandom is all the paths-not-traveled that we get to explore. :D
I completely missed the original discussion until you linked to it here. I found it valuable—lots to think about there.

I'm glad you're still going to write what you want, though, because that's what I love to read!